Consultants Appointed
to investigate censorship systems


Message-ID: <gk8bOCChCdFzEwLo@xemu.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:21 +0000
From: Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine <dave@xemu.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.net,uk.politics.censorship,uk.politics.misc,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Internet Watch Foundation Rating System

In article <33152ae8.5041785@news.demon.co.uk>, Avedon Carol writes:
:
: actually, some of the people promoting Internet ratings systems
: _overtly_ wish to control free expression (political generally, but in
: most cases _specifically_ certain kinds of expression, particularly
: sexual).  They have made no secret of this: They do not want us to be
: free to express sexual diversity in _any_ medium, and some of them do
: not wish us to be able to argue certain positions with regard to hate
: speech,  fascism,  or the holocaust.
:


Computer Weekly 20/2/1997, page four, bottom right.

X-rating of Internet  / sites to help firms / fight against porn
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A major investigation into how to control pornography on the Internet
will back the use of a cinema-style ratings system to help block access
to offensive material.

The study being undertaken by Surrey-based Smith System Engineering,
was commissioned by the European Parliament after research into the
use of an Internet search engine showed that 47% of enquiries were
related to pornographic material.
This is a singularly daft and irrelevant remark if you think
it through -- it is a direct quote from the Smith Systems press release.
The search engine is AltaVista [see nore below].

The final report, to be delivered in May, will assess the technical
feasibility of:


In article <3323b93b.51800570@news.thehub.com.au>, 
Irene Graham <rene@pobox.com>writes:
|It's perhaps only coincidence that the exact same figure cropped up in a
|survey by a Prof. Thimbleby at Middlesex University in September 1995
|here.
| 	''Of an analysis of searches made via a Web search engine by people 
|         all around the world, 47% of the 11000 most often repeated searches 
|         were pornographic....''
|There's a critique of that study here, which, amongst many other things,
|points out that "hardcore" is a very popular type of music.

COMPUTER WEEKLY, Quadrant House, the Quadrant, Sutton, Surry SM2 5AS.
correspondence by fax0181 652 8879 | email computer.weekly@rbi.co.uk
editorial enquiries 0181 652 8642    http://www.computerweekly.co.uk
The byeline is _apparently_ David Bicknell; his name actually appears
on an adjacent article with a fine vertical line between.
It is actually by Clare Boarman. Material wellcome (by fax)
on new developments: opinions & commentary should be directed
to the letters page.

It might be useful to get further information from CW [e.g.: what
search engine, why is this relevant] and get further information
[e.g. the full press release sent to them].  Unless they begin
to behave appallingly, there is no need or point being rough
with them about what they have merely reported.   It might
also be useful to get some letters in with contrary viewpoints.


==================================================================

Smith System Engineering, Surrey Research Park,
Guildford, Surrey, GU2 5YP.  Tel: 01483 442000

INFOCHECK system, page  ** C06 **
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Company Microfiche Report -- Key Data Summary

Co Name: Smith System Engineering Limited
Co Type: Private Company
Last AR: 15/09/96                     Last Accounts: 31/3/96
LegalSt: N/A                          Legal Date: N/A
US SIC : 7371 computer programming services, 7379 computer related srvs
Objects:"Consulting system engineers involved in research and the 
         application of science and technology to operational problems
Secretary: D A allcock
Durectors: Dr B G Smith, Dr N R Burne, N S Graham-Hack (etc)
         (full list with addresses from companies house)

The accounts summary lists is as employing 125 people,
Turnover has increased from #12.38M to #12.40M over the last year.
Pre-tax profit has increased from #504K to 712K.


It might be useful to find out what they are doing, and
make intelligent contributions or critical analyses.
Nothing will be gained (i.e. --- they won't make a more 
sensible report) if you are rude to them now.  Though
people might remember the name and include it in any protests
if they suffer loss, harm, or denial of service in future
because of these current activities.

================================================================
There is apparently a webpage HTTP://WWW.SMITHSYS.CO.UK,
giving the various email addresses and other details.

nslookup gets you the IP number:
 Name:    www.smithsys.co.uk
 Address:  193.36.230.96
~% whois 193.36.230@whois.ripe.net
[dbase.ripe.net]

inetnum: 193.36.230.0 person: Dr I McLenaghan
netname: SMITHSYS address: Smith System Eng. Ltd descr: Smith System Eng. Ltd address: Surrey Research Park country: GB address: Guildford admin-c: Dr I McLenaghan address: Surrey tech-c: Dr I McLenaghan address: GU2 5YP rev-srv: ns.pipex.net ns.uu.net address: England, GB changed: tim@pipex.net 930927 phone: +44 483 505565 source: RIPE fax-no: +44 483 506976 e-mail: irmclenaghan@smithsys.co.uk route: 193.36.230.0/24 changed: tim@pipex.net 930927 descr: SMITHSYS source: RIPE origin: AS1849 mnt-by: AS1849-MNT changed: ripe-dbm@ripe.net 941121 source: RIPE
~% traceroute www.smithsys.co.uk traceroute to www.smithsys.co.uk (193.36.230.96), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets ................... 18 fddi1-0.gw1.london.pipex.net (146.188.31.200) 227.1 ms 204.5 ms 197.2 ms 19 fddi0-0.gw4.london.pipex.net (158.43.200.4) 199.5 ms 215.4 ms 226.5 ms 20 smithsys-gw.pipex.net (158.43.90.194) 225.2 ms 233.0 ms 249.2 ms 21 cat.smithsys.co.uk (193.36.230.96) 269.8 ms 265.3 ms 250.5 ms ================================================================== From which, the following details... The press release comes from Alan Pitman (?press officer) at the main switchboard number, the work is being done in Adrian Colbrook's department. I spoke to his secretary, and arrannged to send our DG10 submission to him.

Smith System Engineering addresses and contacts


OFFICE ADDRESSES: UK (Head Office), Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 5YP, ENGLAND Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442000 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Belgium, Avenue des Arts - 53 - Kunstlaan, 1000 Brussels, BELGIUM Tel: +32 (0) 2 502 89 40 Fax: +32 (0) 2 502 89 35 Japan, Akasaka Wing Building 4F, 6-6-15 Akasaka, Minato-ku, Tokyo 107, JAPAN Tel: +81 (0) 3 3586 0414 Fax: +81 (0) 3 5563 2823 Hong Kong(rep) c/o Eric Spain, Avitel Ltd, 1703 Dominion Centre, 43-49 Queen's Road East Tel: +852 2984 8848 Fax: +852 2984 8838
CONTACTS FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: General -- Richard Sweet, Marketing Director Tel: +44 (0)1483 442045 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Careers -- Nikki Smith, Human Resources Administrator Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442151 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Civil aviation -- Dr Tim Wolfenden Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442009 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Railways -- Richard Shenton Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442012 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Road transport -- John Cheese Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442164 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Vessel tracking and management -- Richard Armstrong Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442146 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Emergency services (Police, Ambulance, Fire) -- Andrew Sage Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442036 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Utilities -- Dr Stephen Brindle Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442157 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Radio spectrum management -- Dr Glyn Carter Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442062 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Space and environment -- Dr David Mitchell Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442147 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 R&D evaluation -- Dr Lee London Tel: +32 (0) 2 502 8940 Fax: +32 (0) 2 502 8935 High performance computing -- Dr Adrian Colbrook Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442110 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Defence Communications and Information Systems (CIS) -- Dr David Haws Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442149 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Defence Operational Analysis (OA) -- Dr Gavin Waterson Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442106 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Financial markets -- Steve Isaac Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442137 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304

.

.


I write the consultants....


Dave Bird, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
West Midlands group of the National Council for Civil Liberties(Liberty)



to: Dr Adrian Colbrook,
    Smith System Engineering, 
    Surrey Research Park,
    Guildford, 
    Surrey.      GU2 5YP                                 06/march/1997



re: W.MNCCL'S RESPONSE TO  THE E.U.GREEN PAPER ON INTERNET CENSORSHIP
    (AKA "THE PROTECTION OF MINORS IN AUDIOVISUAL SERVICES"), kept at
    http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/censor/eu_green.html; I will send a
    paper copy of this letter enclosing a paper copy of the response. 
    ===============================================================
    1. RATING FACTUAL MATERIAL    
    2. COMPLEXITY OF RATINGS
    3. NEED ALL PAGES CARRY THEM?
    4. MARK TEXT, OR ASSURANCES?
    5. CHECK AT PAGE, OR AT RATINGS SITE?
    ===============================================================
    Dear Dr Colbrook,

    I was interested to read in Computer Weekly that your company is
    investigating censorship mechanisms for the European Parliament.
    I enclose our submission to DG-X on the issue, and would be 
    grateful if you would tell us your response to some of the 
    points in it.  I suppose the obvious question would be what
    expertise Smith Systems is bringing to bear on questions of
    law and sociology, which affect not just whether but also _how_
    some of these mechanisms should be implemented. The sections on
    accountability for unlawful material are self explanatory, so I
    will concetntrate here on restriction or obstructiveness against
    lawful content by ratings systems.  The PICs system itself is
    fairly suitable to carry both useful indexing material and
    censorship by ratings; the debate is largely about whether, 
    and what sort of, ratings there should be carried on it.

    1. RATING FACTUAL MATERIAL  

    (1) The relationship between author and _carrier_ on the Internet
    most resembles that between speaker and phone company i.e. 
    monitoring of every individual call is impracticable.  The 
    relationship between author and reader is more like a system
    of numerous small factual or hobby newsletters.   There is
    therefore a poor fit between this and a ratings system
    devised for entertainment such as films or computer games,
    where the premis is that the authors add sex or violence 
    as an arbitrary choice to "spice it up".  This is clearly
    not true where there is a report of a murder or rape which
    took place, e.g. in the context that the wrong person has 
    been jailed for it.  Are you aware that the Australian Council
    for Civil Liberties has lodged a complaint over a false RSACi
    rating by MSNBC news?  The rating is minimum, but the page
    carries reports of violence, including the effects of violence
    e.g. spilt blood visible, which clearly violate its RSACi rating.
    Have you considered whether there should be an exemption for
    factual reports of real events [for everyone -- not just news
    magazines].  For example, V-Chip systems usually exempt
    news and sport, although both can be quite violent.  But if 
    you do this, then you must realise that V Chip ratings are
    mostly for dramatised fictional entertainment, and WWW pages
    mostly aren't such so VChip type ratings are mostly inappropriate
    for them.  This was why I wondered what expertise you have to
    deal with social/legal points like this.  If you are simply
    investigating how, technically, to carry out what is a wrong and
    foolish action,  then this will prove rather a waste of money.

    2. COMPLEXITY OF RATINGS

    (2) Again, a key question is what type and complexity of ratings
    to use. I believe in Canada a complex system of 1,2,3,4 scores
    in each of sex, violence and swearwords has been found to be
    far too complex and largely ignored by viewers.  Webpage content
    [as opposed to means of transmission] is not so much akin to
    films and computer games,  as to newspapers and magazines.  
    The sole categorisation of such paper media is that some are
    marked "not suitable for under-18s", and this seems sufficient
    for parents to stop under-18s seeing material of which the 
    parents disapprove; which is presumably the aim of the exercise.
    Requiring authors at each update to answer complex 
    questionaires and perhaps wait for the result to be returned
    has a chilling effect on free speech, and is surely DISPRORTIONATE
    if applied only to electronic media and not to the exact 
    same text and images in print media. Alternatively, if it is to
    be introduced, would it not be reasonable and ptoportionate
    to demand the same 1/2/3/4 sex/violence/swearwords ratings
    on the covers of all newspapers and magazines.  If not, why not?

    3. NEED ALL PAGES CARRY THEM?

    (3) Is it necessary and  to force people to wear
    a mark of somebody else's disapproval on their webpages
    like a yellow star, if the exact same effect of under-18s being
    stopped form seeing what their parents disapprove of can be obtained
    by having an "approved for minors" mark which is witheld from
    those pages which don't want or deserve it.  Surely a 
    compulsory mark would be DISPRORTIONATE in these circumstances.
    The following questions relate to this:
    [a] What would be the extent of resistance, opposition,
    disruption, protest, people moving pages abroad etcetera
    if subjected to that sort of imposition?
    [b] What would be the effect of bottlenecks produced by
    demanding all pages register by a given date, and is 
    it necessary that this mess and disruption be caused?
    [c] Is it lawful to compel speech e.g. demand that people
    write childrens books for you, and would would be more sensible
    alternatives of *encouragin* child-safe pages in a voluntary system?

    4. MARK TEXT, OR ASSURANCES?

    (4) Does the mark relate to, and checksum, the literal text,
    or an undertaking about the general nature of the text?
    For example, I often update my page every 2 or 3 days. Do you
    suggest I re-apply, and wait a day or two, at each update;
    and re-apply the same day when I spot a syntax or spelling error 
    on the server to re-upload?  What about pages constructed 
    on the fly?  Or which are the front ends of databases?
    Do you think that if it only, perhaps automatically,
    collects a piece of text that says "RSACi are silly buggers",
    then it has blown its "swearwords" rating??  Or is it perhaps
    impracticable to checksum the literal text in this way.   

    5. CHECK AT PAGE, OR AT RATINGS SITE?

    (5) What is checked when a page is accessed.  Does every single
    followed hyperlink access a ratings server, and would this 
    perhaps cause bottlenecks?  Or is it perhaps only a checksum
    on a text which says "We recived ratings assurances about {URL}
    on {DATE}."  If so, how are false tags withdrawn?
    Who has the contractual arrangement to see that tags
    are correct, the page author or the server owner?  Part of
    the problem with RSACi is the messy contractual arrangements
    with the individual user.

    These are the main questions, and they seem to be driven
    mainly by points of contitutional law [what is PROPORTIONATE
    under the E.C.H.R] and sociological/political, which is why 
    I'm a bit puzzled they seem to fall under high speed 
    computing.  A report which simply said how, technically, 
    to implement the wrong solution would not be much use 
    to anyone.  And if it was presented by politicals as 
    "this report says it can be done technically" == "therefore
    it is the right thing to do", this would be somewhat
    dishonest of them though not of your choosing.

    I look forward to your considered reply on these points, and
    to seeing how you have dealt with them when the report
    emerges in May, assuming my local MEP can get me a copy.


    Yours Sincerely,

    DAVE BIRD.
 

DAVE BIRD, Secretary of W.M.NCCL__________________________________________
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