Message-ID: <gk8bOCChCdFzEwLo@xemu.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:21 +0000 From: Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine <dave@xemu.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: uk.net,uk.politics.censorship,uk.politics.misc,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: Internet Watch Foundation Rating System In article <33152ae8.5041785@news.demon.co.uk>, Avedon Carol writes: : : actually, some of the people promoting Internet ratings systems : _overtly_ wish to control free expression (political generally, but in : most cases _specifically_ certain kinds of expression, particularly : sexual). They have made no secret of this: They do not want us to be : free to express sexual diversity in _any_ medium, and some of them do : not wish us to be able to argue certain positions with regard to hate : speech, fascism, or the holocaust. : Computer Weekly 20/2/1997, page four, bottom right. X-rating of Internet / sites to help firms / fight against porn ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A major investigation into how to control pornography on the Internet will back the use of a cinema-style ratings system to help block access to offensive material. The study being undertaken by Surrey-based Smith System Engineering, was commissioned by the European Parliament after research into the use of an Internet search engine showed that 47% of enquiries were related to pornographic material. This is a singularly daft and irrelevant remark if you think it through -- it is a direct quote from the Smith Systems press release. The search engine is AltaVista [see nore below]. The final report, to be delivered in May, will assess the technical feasibility of:
OFFICE ADDRESSES: UK (Head Office), Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 5YP, ENGLAND Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442000 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Belgium, Avenue des Arts - 53 - Kunstlaan, 1000 Brussels, BELGIUM Tel: +32 (0) 2 502 89 40 Fax: +32 (0) 2 502 89 35 Japan, Akasaka Wing Building 4F, 6-6-15 Akasaka, Minato-ku, Tokyo 107, JAPAN Tel: +81 (0) 3 3586 0414 Fax: +81 (0) 3 5563 2823 Hong Kong(rep) c/o Eric Spain, Avitel Ltd, 1703 Dominion Centre, 43-49 Queen's Road East Tel: +852 2984 8848 Fax: +852 2984 8838
CONTACTS FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: General -- Richard Sweet, Marketing Director Tel: +44 (0)1483 442045 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Careers -- Nikki Smith, Human Resources Administrator Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442151 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Civil aviation -- Dr Tim Wolfenden Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442009 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Railways -- Richard Shenton Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442012 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Road transport -- John Cheese Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442164 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Vessel tracking and management -- Richard Armstrong Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442146 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Emergency services (Police, Ambulance, Fire) -- Andrew Sage Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442036 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Utilities -- Dr Stephen Brindle Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442157 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Radio spectrum management -- Dr Glyn Carter Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442062 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Space and environment -- Dr David Mitchell Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442147 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 R&D evaluation -- Dr Lee London Tel: +32 (0) 2 502 8940 Fax: +32 (0) 2 502 8935 High performance computing -- Dr Adrian Colbrook Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442110 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304 Defence Communications and Information Systems (CIS) -- Dr David Haws Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442149 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Defence Operational Analysis (OA) -- Dr Gavin Waterson Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442106 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442144 Financial markets -- Steve Isaac Tel: +44 (0) 1483 442137 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 442304
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I write the consultants....
Dave Bird, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx West Midlands group of the National Council for Civil Liberties(Liberty) to: Dr Adrian Colbrook, Smith System Engineering, Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey. GU2 5YP 06/march/1997 re: W.MNCCL'S RESPONSE TO THE E.U.GREEN PAPER ON INTERNET CENSORSHIP (AKA "THE PROTECTION OF MINORS IN AUDIOVISUAL SERVICES"), kept at http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/censor/eu_green.html; I will send a paper copy of this letter enclosing a paper copy of the response. =============================================================== 1. RATING FACTUAL MATERIAL 2. COMPLEXITY OF RATINGS 3. NEED ALL PAGES CARRY THEM? 4. MARK TEXT, OR ASSURANCES? 5. CHECK AT PAGE, OR AT RATINGS SITE? =============================================================== Dear Dr Colbrook, I was interested to read in Computer Weekly that your company is investigating censorship mechanisms for the European Parliament. I enclose our submission to DG-X on the issue, and would be grateful if you would tell us your response to some of the points in it. I suppose the obvious question would be what expertise Smith Systems is bringing to bear on questions of law and sociology, which affect not just whether but also _how_ some of these mechanisms should be implemented. The sections on accountability for unlawful material are self explanatory, so I will concetntrate here on restriction or obstructiveness against lawful content by ratings systems. The PICs system itself is fairly suitable to carry both useful indexing material and censorship by ratings; the debate is largely about whether, and what sort of, ratings there should be carried on it. 1. RATING FACTUAL MATERIAL (1) The relationship between author and _carrier_ on the Internet most resembles that between speaker and phone company i.e. monitoring of every individual call is impracticable. The relationship between author and reader is more like a system of numerous small factual or hobby newsletters. There is therefore a poor fit between this and a ratings system devised for entertainment such as films or computer games, where the premis is that the authors add sex or violence as an arbitrary choice to "spice it up". This is clearly not true where there is a report of a murder or rape which took place, e.g. in the context that the wrong person has been jailed for it. Are you aware that the Australian Council for Civil Liberties has lodged a complaint over a false RSACi rating by MSNBC news? The rating is minimum, but the page carries reports of violence, including the effects of violence e.g. spilt blood visible, which clearly violate its RSACi rating. Have you considered whether there should be an exemption for factual reports of real events [for everyone -- not just news magazines]. For example, V-Chip systems usually exempt news and sport, although both can be quite violent. But if you do this, then you must realise that V Chip ratings are mostly for dramatised fictional entertainment, and WWW pages mostly aren't such so VChip type ratings are mostly inappropriate for them. This was why I wondered what expertise you have to deal with social/legal points like this. If you are simply investigating how, technically, to carry out what is a wrong and foolish action, then this will prove rather a waste of money. 2. COMPLEXITY OF RATINGS (2) Again, a key question is what type and complexity of ratings to use. I believe in Canada a complex system of 1,2,3,4 scores in each of sex, violence and swearwords has been found to be far too complex and largely ignored by viewers. Webpage content [as opposed to means of transmission] is not so much akin to films and computer games, as to newspapers and magazines. The sole categorisation of such paper media is that some are marked "not suitable for under-18s", and this seems sufficient for parents to stop under-18s seeing material of which the parents disapprove; which is presumably the aim of the exercise. Requiring authors at each update to answer complex questionaires and perhaps wait for the result to be returned has a chilling effect on free speech, and is surely DISPRORTIONATE if applied only to electronic media and not to the exact same text and images in print media. Alternatively, if it is to be introduced, would it not be reasonable and ptoportionate to demand the same 1/2/3/4 sex/violence/swearwords ratings on the covers of all newspapers and magazines. If not, why not? 3. NEED ALL PAGES CARRY THEM? (3) Is it necessary and to force people to wear a mark of somebody else's disapproval on their webpages like a yellow star, if the exact same effect of under-18s being stopped form seeing what their parents disapprove of can be obtained by having an "approved for minors" mark which is witheld from those pages which don't want or deserve it. Surely a compulsory mark would be DISPRORTIONATE in these circumstances. The following questions relate to this: [a] What would be the extent of resistance, opposition, disruption, protest, people moving pages abroad etcetera if subjected to that sort of imposition? [b] What would be the effect of bottlenecks produced by demanding all pages register by a given date, and is it necessary that this mess and disruption be caused? [c] Is it lawful to compel speech e.g. demand that people write childrens books for you, and would would be more sensible alternatives of *encouragin* child-safe pages in a voluntary system? 4. MARK TEXT, OR ASSURANCES? (4) Does the mark relate to, and checksum, the literal text, or an undertaking about the general nature of the text? For example, I often update my page every 2 or 3 days. Do you suggest I re-apply, and wait a day or two, at each update; and re-apply the same day when I spot a syntax or spelling error on the server to re-upload? What about pages constructed on the fly? Or which are the front ends of databases? Do you think that if it only, perhaps automatically, collects a piece of text that says "RSACi are silly buggers", then it has blown its "swearwords" rating?? Or is it perhaps impracticable to checksum the literal text in this way. 5. CHECK AT PAGE, OR AT RATINGS SITE? (5) What is checked when a page is accessed. Does every single followed hyperlink access a ratings server, and would this perhaps cause bottlenecks? Or is it perhaps only a checksum on a text which says "We recived ratings assurances about {URL} on {DATE}." If so, how are false tags withdrawn? Who has the contractual arrangement to see that tags are correct, the page author or the server owner? Part of the problem with RSACi is the messy contractual arrangements with the individual user. These are the main questions, and they seem to be driven mainly by points of contitutional law [what is PROPORTIONATE under the E.C.H.R] and sociological/political, which is why I'm a bit puzzled they seem to fall under high speed computing. A report which simply said how, technically, to implement the wrong solution would not be much use to anyone. And if it was presented by politicals as "this report says it can be done technically" == "therefore it is the right thing to do", this would be somewhat dishonest of them though not of your choosing. I look forward to your considered reply on these points, and to seeing how you have dealt with them when the report emerges in May, assuming my local MEP can get me a copy. Yours Sincerely, DAVE BIRD. DAVE BIRD, Secretary of W.M.NCCL__________________________________________ Dave@XEMU.demon.co.uk -/censor,Censorship -/Clam,$cientology| |www.xemu.demon.co.uk/index,homepage -/injustce,MiscarriagesOfJustice.| |www.xemu.demon.co.uk/nccl, NCCL info_-/world,___w/wide_Civil_Liberties|![]()